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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Locus Bey Gallente Qalandar	Posted - 2007.03.12 23:43:00 - [1] I am totally amazed at the self inforced ignorance displayed by many of the posters in this thread denying global warning I don't know where you live or what you do, but you must live under a rock (or the USA, sorry, but the amount of americans without a clue on this is astounding) if you don't know this is real. Claims that it is a natural phenomena, not a major impending threat to our planet is just BS, and if you bothered to read what the worlds scientists are saying (no not those sponsored by Exxon/oil/gas companies who are ever increasing in the minority) you would realize it is the major issue facing this world. Sorry to be so heavy handed but denying global warming is just a joke these days.
Locus Bey Gallente Qalandar	Posted - 2007.03.13 00:48:00 - [2] Originally by: Pierre Jacquemein Originally by: Locus Bey I am totally amazed at the self inforced ignorance displayed by many of the posters in this thread denying global warning I don't know where you live or what you do, but you must live under a rock (or the USA, sorry, but the amount of americans without a clue on this is astounding) if you don't know this is real. Claims that it is a natural phenomena, not a major impending threat to our planet is just BS, and if you bothered to read what the worlds scientists are saying (no not those sponsored by Exxon/oil/gas companies who are ever increasing in the minority) you would realize it is the major issue facing this world. Sorry to be so heavy handed but denying global warming is just a joke these days. I like how everyone who disagrees with you is obviously an American. never said everyone, just pointing out the disproportionate number of americans who believe that global warming is bunk. given that america is the biggest polluter on the planet, this makes this fact worse. i live in the country with the highest rate of greenhouse gases per capita - australia, so don't think i'm escaping country responsibility. we however don't bull**** ourselves that global warming is not a reality. there is nothing to disagree with! you could seriously only believe its not a reality if you deliberately chose to ignore the science.
Locus Bey Gallente Qalandar	Posted - 2007.03.13 04:57:00 - [3] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Originally by: Locus Bey I am totally amazed at the self inforced ignorance displayed by many of the posters in this thread denying global warning I don't know where you live or what you do, but you must live under a rock (or the USA, sorry, but the amount of americans without a clue on this is astounding) if you don't know this is real. Claims that it is a natural phenomena, not a major impending threat to our planet is just BS, and if you bothered to read what the worlds scientists are saying (no not those sponsored by Exxon/oil/gas companies who are ever increasing in the minority) you would realize it is the major issue facing this world. Sorry to be so heavy handed but denying global warming is just a joke these days. Denying the world was flat was a joke, and a crime once. Denying the earth was the center of the universe was also treated the same way. You say to stop looking at people funded by groups like Exxon-Mobile, but do you you have any idea how abusrd you sound. You're saying that anyone who doesn't believe in man-made global warming is a fraud, or has been bought off by big oil. Do you honestly believe the groups taking such violent stances against dissenters honestly believe what they preach, or that they are scared that their religion is under fire? Violence is the last resort of failure. Global Warming is the 'major issue' in the world right now because it's a politically driven agenda, and it WILL bolster big government. France's President has already stated that things such as the Kyoto treaty are the first strong step towards a global government. I have one simple thing to say to the fanatics who are screaming that man-made Global Warming is coming and going to kill us all: Proof or STFU /me smiles and listens to the dead silence. I guees the concordance of scientific thinking (and we are talking 95% if not more) on the matter OTHER than those funded by vested interests is not proof enough I don't know where you get any credible evidence to the contrary, but i do know it is thinner than an ageing mans head of hair. /me smiles and listens to the dead silence. I see the same bull**** trotted out by the nay sayers. Go and investigate this, you know do some research. You might find that other than the two programs you've seen saying global warming is unproven, there is a deafening amount of evidence saying it is. I don't know where you live, but you would be laughed at where I live.
Locus Bey Gallente Qalandar	Posted - 2007.03.13 08:23:00 - [4] Sources: common sense, Rush Limbaugh (oops I swore), and the Internet. Do some research outside of your blogs, and actually go to some (horror of horrors) sites that conflict your views. The best way to prove you're right is to destroy the opposing arguments through FACTS. Post ended with 288 characters left. I see redneck radio has really kept you informed...not The polar bear argument, now thats a great one Yeh there is plenty of ice for the polar bears now the caps are receding. Swimming a hundred miles is really going to come in handy. Carbon credits, well i see your economics degree has come in handy and you really got a handle on this one, and the reasons for it as a global necessity. Stop bringing Al Gore into it trying to use him as an escape goat, he has nothing to do with the carbon credits argument, and to deride him only serves to show you know nothing of the system. The rise in sea levels will wipe out many coastal states, and in many cases entire island nations. The increased benefits for agriculture are only for a few years and benefit the likes of the UK and not many others. So next time know the whole picture! I'm not even going to go into the benefits, longjevity and cost effectiveness of alternative energies like solar and wind power, if you don't already know it its about time you left your armchair and checked it out. The arguments you have supplied are purile. I really despair of the lazy Rush Limbaugh listening redneck, its lucky the gene pool has decided that its time to move on and do something about the crap we have done to the environment with our lazy, greedy capitalistic attitude. You never know we might take the same attitude to humanity in a few years
Locus Bey Gallente Qalandar	Posted - 2007.03.14 04:42:00 - [5] http://www.ipcc.ch/SPM2feb07.pdf http://www.wmo.int-web-Press-PR_IPCC_E.doc http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/independent_reviews/stern_review_economics_climate_change/stern_review_report.cfm http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/ http://www.nsidc.org/sotc/sea_ice.html
Locus Bey Gallente Qalandar	Posted - 2007.03.14 05:01:00 - [6] Edited by: Locus Bey on 14/03/2007 05:00:16 " The overwhelming majority of scientific experts, whilst recognizing that scientific uncertainties exist, nonetheless believe that human-induced climate change is already occurring and that future change is inevitable." Dr. Robert Watson, former Chairman of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. http://www.royalsociety.org/displaypagedoc.asp?id=13034 http://www.royalsoc.org/displaypagedoc.asp?id=13619 I guess the UN, the National Academies of Science, and the Royal Society of Canada are all a bunch of morons and the handful of naysayers are right http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/306/5702/1686 http://www.desmogblog.com/
Locus Bey Gallente Qalandar	Posted - 2007.03.15 01:27:00 - [7] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Edited by: Malthros Zenobia on 14/03/2007 22:06:38 Originally by: Locus Bey I guess the UN, the National Academies of Science, and the Royal Society of Canada are all a bunch of morons and the handful of naysayers are right If by 'handful' you mean 'tens of thousands' and by 'naysayers' you mean actual established, well-known scientists, then yes. Oh so the National Academies of Science signatories aren't established well known scientists? And to suggest that bodies like the IPCC, WMO, and the UNEP are bureaucrats is just misleading. The amount of 'scientists' publishing papers to the contrary is minimal, and in most cases the information they propogate is blatant lies payed for by the energy companies. You'll find many of them have histories going back to big tobacco and the like. Credible?
Locus Bey Gallente Qalandar	Posted - 2007.03.15 07:39:00 - [8] I guess if you bothered to copy and paste those that didn't work, oh, and then read them, you might have come across some inconvenient truths i only see two arguments put forward by the naysayers, 1. that there is no scientific proof, this in the face of an abundance of evidence from scientists from all over the globe, which pales against the scant refutations put forward by scientists payed up by the energy companies. 2. that this is just a cycle in history and thus nothing proves mans hand in this. yes there have been hot periods in earths history, but this in no way counters the evidence pointing to mans impact on the planet over the last 50 years. especially the last 20. face it, your in the minority these days, you don't actually bother to read anything, and anyway everything is just a left wing conspiracy, i mean really
Locus Bey Gallente Qalandar	Posted - 2007.03.16 00:55:00 - [9] http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/globalwarming/images/last2000-large.jpg As to your graph. it is totally and utterly misleading to those who don't know how to interpret it. Among other things CO2 levels are currently higher than for any time when we have direct measurements (directly, from 1950; before that, from air trapped in ice cores), which amounts to the last 780,000 years! The last time CO2 levels exceeded present was about 40 million years ago! http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c2/Vostok-ice-core-petit.png You need to go here http://www.realclimate.org/ and here http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science/hockeystickFAQ.html to see how spurious the examples you have given are, and why such simplistic graphs w/out the science that goes with them are typical of the naysayers.
Locus Bey Gallente Qalandar	Posted - 2007.03.16 11:53:00 - [10] Edited by: Locus Bey on 16/03/2007 11:52:43 http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/Hazards/What/VolGas/volgas.html just goes to show the bunk people believe and how susceptible people are. i like the latest ones, that the push for addressing global warming amounts to religious zealotry, and that the scientists of the IPCC and other agencies aren't real scientists, very good spin but as usual its clutching at straws. the carboniferous argument, doesn't explain why CO2 levels have risen to the levels they have in a period of 50 years that would normally take a 1000! i'm not posting anymore. the arguments are too ridiculous. you get people believing the bunk in the Channel 4 aired programme "The Great Global Warming Swindle". http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/03/swindled and http://www.medialens.org/alerts/07/0313pure_propaganda_the.php you may need to copy and paste, sorry for that.
Locus Bey Gallente Qalandar	Posted - 2007.03.17 06:08:00 - [11] http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a2/Climate_Change_Attribution.png http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/fig9-5.htm http://www.realclimate.org/co2_stab.jpg http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2006/11/how-much-co2-emission-is-too-much/ It's about time you Laurel and Hardy stopped bull****ting everyone here and did some research. I'm glad I'm inducing near vomit in you, only tell the truth, you've trotted out the best of your conspiracy theories and have nothing left.
Locus Bey Gallente Qalandar	Posted - 2007.03.17 12:54:00 - [12] You fail to mention that the 1 degree rise and predicted 2 degree rise (if we can catch it in time) has devestating effects on the planet. You fail to mention the plethora of scientific data evidencing this disturbing fact, instead backpeddling to some ridiculous argument about Japanese supercomputers. It's not 30 years of observation and you know it. Human records go back to 1850, and we have the ice cores among other evidence. You've got 1 argument, and it doesn't seem no matter how many graphs, whether they be 50, 100, 1000, 650,000 years, how many scientific articles, evidencing global warming that you will be convinced. NP thats your deal. I'm not going to repeat myself over and over, its acknowledged the Carboniferous period mirrors our own in many ways. BUT and there big buts, the Carboniferous period as I mentioned previously also had a lot of other global conditions completely unlike ours, and the threat that we face now has occured in a record small amount of time, something that can't be said for any other period. You also fail to tell the whole argument regarding the temperature rise and CO2 levels. You should know that the earths sea levels will rise by tens of metres, rapid thawing of the Greenland ice sheet, flooding of New York and London, increased hurricane, drought and floods .... If we don't stabilize emissions we are in for deep ****.
Locus Bey Gallente Qalandar	Posted - 2007.03.18 00:08:00 - [13] I'm not arguing with you anymore, you constantly take one factor and deliberately use it out of context of all other factors. Your ignoring the effect the rise in CO2 has on carbon dioxide levels among other things. If you can't see that the graphs point to extreme rises in the last 100 years, and that this is a problematic condition there is something wrong. If you had read any of the science i had linked you would see a rise of 1-2 degrees is a best case scenario if we get a handle on things now. This is not speculation, this is fact! Its not argued by the scientific community! Its only idiots like Singer, Crichton, Lindzen and the like who keep perpuating such myths, and if anyone bothers to read, their the laughing stock of the scientific community.
Locus Bey Gallente Qalandar	Posted - 2007.03.18 12:24:00 - [14] http://www.marklynas.org/2007/3/15/to-the-end-of-the-earth-six-degrees-in-the-sunday-times http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2005-04/teia-sce042505.php http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/globalwarming.html http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/globalwarming/cretaceous.html http://illconsidered.blogspot.com/search/label/Sceptic%20Guide
Locus Bey Gallente Qalandar	Posted - 2007.03.18 22:54:00 - [15] Anyone who bothers to do their research on global warming (and you really don't have to look that far) will know that the 4 or so 'arguments' found on so called 'sceptics' sites and blogs have all been debunked. Each of these 'arguments' is presented with falsified data, as was seen in the Channel 4 Film "The Global Warming Swindle." NONE of them stands up under scrutiny. 'Arguments' like the 'Volcano emits more CO2 than humans' is so old hat any 1/2 brained 'sceptic' wouldn't go near it these days. It was 'cleverly' presented like all of the 4 arguments are, and if you do no more than read one of these blogs you could be convinced. You do a bit of reading, and you see how easily one can be duped. I've supplied more than enough links pointing to this, and I urge you to read them. I've also supplied the real and frightening data, which I also urge you to read. This way once you are armed with the FACTS you can see how fallacious the 'sceptics' arguments are!
Locus Bey Gallente Qalandar	Posted - 2007.03.18 23:41:00 - [16] Edited by: Locus Bey on 18/03/2007 23:38:11 "Global Warming is a farce and you will find every major group and supporter of it, and the actions they want to take to 'stop it' have one thing in common: They are steps towards global government and socialism." I was wondering what log cabin in the wilderness you where writing from :) I am really amazed at what some of you Americans believe. I mean really It's a big world out there, and not 1/2 as scary as you think
Locus Bey Gallente Qalandar	Posted - 2007.03.19 04:39:00 - [17] If I spent all my time reading and listening to right wing propoganda, I'd probably be unlikely to listen too. This has nothing to do with the facts as far as you 4 are concerned, it's got to do with low brow conspiracy theories of an attack on YOUR vision of the good old US of A's superiority, and a ridiculous xenophobic fear of the rest of the world. I mean give me a break with global government and socialism You've had 4 'arguments' in the last 10 years. 1 by 1 the 'better read sceptics' have turned their backs on them. (Hasn't stopped you posting them here mind you ) The smoke gets cleared away and what is it, xenophobic conspiracy theories at the heart. Look, if debunking global warming was its own agenda, and actually had some credible science to it, i might give you the time of the day. But it's not!
Locus Bey Gallente Qalandar	Posted - 2007.03.20 03:54:00 - [18] http://www.brighton73.freeserve.co.uk/gw/paleo/20000yrfig.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Carbon_Dioxide_400kyr.png So a rise of 100 ppm in 100 yrs is not significant? Given any of the other rise in history took from 5 to 20 Kyrs, and happened over a 400 Kyr timeline? And I guess this is not a problem? http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0226-06.htm http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2005/07/the-acid-ocean-the-other-problem-with-cosub2sub-emission/ And in case you didn't get it, How do we know that recent CO2 increases are due to human activities? Here it is again http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=87 And in case a hundred yrs is not enough, here is 500 yrs http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/globalwarming/pollack.html And you might want to have a look at this again , http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/globalwarming/paleolast.html oh and this http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/globalwarming/holocene.html And 1 more time lets go 650,000 years of greenhouse gas concentrations http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2005/11/650000-years-of-greenhouse-gas-concentrations/ And just in case you really don't get it here http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2005/05/planetary-energy-imbalance/ and here http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2006/01/calculating-the-greenhouse-effect/ Oh and by the way the 17-19,000 scientist petition was a hoax in case you didn't know. Another 1 for the sceptics
Locus Bey Gallente Qalandar	Posted - 2007.03.20 04:05:00 - [19] NASA's Goddard Institute of Space Studies (GISS) http://www.giss.nasa.gov/edu/gwdebate/ National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/globalwarming.html Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/index.htm National Academy of Sciences (NAS) http://books.nap.edu/collections/global_warming/index.html State of the Canadian Cryosphere (SOCC) http://www.socc.ca/permafrost/permafrost_future_e.cfm Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) http://yosemite.epa.gov/OAR/globalwarming.nsf/content/index.html The Royal Society of the UK (RS) http://www.royalsoc.ac.uk/page.asp?id=3135 American Geophysical Union (AGU) http://www.ametsoc.org/policy/climatechangeresearch_2003.html American Institute of Physics http://www.aip.org/gov/policy12.html National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR) http://eo.ucar.edu/basics/cc_1.html American Meteorological Society (AMS) http://www.ametsoc.org/policy/jointacademies.html Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society (CMOS) http://www.cmos.ca/climatechangepole.html Every major scientific institute dealing with climate, ocean, and/or atmosphere agrees that the climate is warming rapidly and the primary cause is human CO2 emissions. On top of that list, see also this joint statement that specifically and unequivocally endorses the work and conclusions of the IPCC Third Assessment report, issued by - Academia Brasiliera de Ci+¬ncias (Bazil) - Royal Society of Canada - Chinese Academy of Sciences - Academi+¬ des Sciences (France) - Deutsche Akademie der Naturforscher Leopoldina (Germany) - Indian National Science Academy - Accademia dei Lincei (Italy) - Science Council of Japan - Russian Academy of Sciences - Royal Society (United Kingdom) - National Academy of Sciences (United States of America) http://nationalacademies.org/onpi/06072005.pdf and this one that includes the above signers plus: - Australian Academy of Sciences - Royal Flemish Academy of Belgium for Sciences and the Arts - Caribbean Academy of Sciences - Indonesian Academy of Sciences - Royal Irish Academy - Academy of Sciences Malaysia - Academy Council of the Royal Society of New Zealand - Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences http://www.royalsociety.org/displaypagedoc.asp?id=13619 I guess this list of scientists who do believe in global warming don't know what they are talking about do they?
Locus Bey Gallente Qalandar	Posted - 2007.03.20 07:38:00 - [20] Edited by: Locus Bey on 20/03/2007 07:47:33 Originally by: Dethis Notice how it went from "OMG GLOBAL WARMING RUN FOR TEH HILLLLLLZZ!!!oneooneone" to "well we fear for global warming" to "well were worried about climate change" to "well eventually we will suffer from climate change" I have not seen one argument yet that cannot be debunked, look at world history climate has been fluctuating for centuries even before we had fossil fuels. And your proof is...? Read above maybe and you'll see that there is irrefutable proof. I love all these 'sceptics' like you, lot of verbage no scientific facts. So all the major scientific bodies are wrong? And you are right?
Locus Bey Gallente Qalandar	Posted - 2007.03.20 22:47:00 - [21] Edited by: Locus Bey on 20/03/2007 22:53:29 Edited by: Locus Bey on 20/03/2007 22:45:43 Edited by: Locus Bey on 20/03/2007 22:45:15 Let's see, Fred Singer has gone from "Global warming is not happening" (1998-2005) to now to Global warming is "unstoppable" (2006) The guy is a complete joke. Singer has retired from the University of Virginia and has not had a single article accepted for any peer-reviewed scientific journal for 20 years. His main work has been as a hired gun for business interests to undermine scientific research on environmental and health matters. Before turning to climate change denial he has argued that CFCs do not cause ozone depletion and second hand smoke does not cause cancer In 1990 he founded ôThe Science and Environment Policy Projectö, which aggressively contradicts climate science and has received direct funding from Exxon, Shell, Unocal and ARCO. Exxon is also among the funders ($20,000 in 1998 and 2000)If you haven't read the preposterous musings he's put forward in explanation over the years I suggest you look at this http://www.desmogblog.com/directory/quick/ and this http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2005/01/the-global-cooling-myth/index.php?s=fred+singer&qt=&q=&cx=009744842749537478185%3Ahwbuiarvsbo&client=google-coop-np&cof=GALT%3A808080%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A34374A%3BVLC%3AAA8610%3BAH%3Aleft%3BBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BLBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BALC%3A66AA55%3BLC%3A66AA55%3BT%3A000000%3BGFNT%3A66AA55%3BGIMP%3A66AA55%3BFORID%3A11%3B&searchdatabase=sitehttp://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/category/climate-science/sun-earth-connections/ And Sessho get your hand of it m8, I've already proven your 1 AND ONLY 'ARGUMENT' a joke. You can tell partial facts all you like, isn't going to help your argument. You can't argue with science m8! The quackery you 2 come up with is laughable.
Locus Bey Gallente Qalandar	Posted - 2007.03.21 00:48:00 - [22] I guess Sessho, that looking at 650,000 yrs of data, where there has NEVER EVER been a spike as quick as the latest means nothing? You know very well from looking at the data that it will go beyond the 1 degree mark, and you know very well the consequences of this on our environment. You have NO scientific evidence in your favour put forward by any credible scientist. In FACT every major scientific body REFUTES your silly argument. You keep trying to put a spin on data that can't be made. How many times do I have to tell you this? READ THE FACTS and give it up. I've given you WAY more than enough evidence, NONE of which you even try to refute, you just sidestep and use 'arguments' that have NOTHING AT ALL to do with the science! Where are the wealth of scientists using your arguments? Nowhere thats wherer!

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